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	<title>Comments on: Moving to Japan Tips: The Language Question</title>
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	<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/</link>
	<description>Notes on life as a compulsive writer, dilettante photographer and travelling wife, adjusting to Sydney after 18 months in Japan.</description>
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		<title>By: k</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-165</guid>
		<description>i still have problems with katakana... for less familiar words, i have to read it aloud a few times before something in my head goes &quot;click&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i still have problems with katakana&#8230; for less familiar words, i have to read it aloud a few times before something in my head goes &#8220;click&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: DBR</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>DBR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>In the interests of full disclosure - I learned hiragana first, too (way back in early high school actually and again last year when we started lessons) and I avoided katakana for the looongest time because I had this  loony idea that I would mix up the two scripts because they have the same sounds.  If you are planning to learn Japanese in a serious way then you need to learn both at the start and I am very strongly for learning all Japanese in kana rather than romaji (that&#039;s another post) we insisted upon the kana version of text books etc... 

If, however, you don&#039;t plan on learning the language fully or more than a smattering of phrases just to get along (which includes tourists here for just a week or two) then katakana is outrageously useful while hiragana really isn&#039;t useful at all since even if you get some furigana above the knaji hiragana will be mixed with you still won&#039;t understand the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interests of full disclosure &#8211; I learned hiragana first, too (way back in early high school actually and again last year when we started lessons) and I avoided katakana for the looongest time because I had this  loony idea that I would mix up the two scripts because they have the same sounds.  If you are planning to learn Japanese in a serious way then you need to learn both at the start and I am very strongly for learning all Japanese in kana rather than romaji (that&#8217;s another post) we insisted upon the kana version of text books etc&#8230; </p>
<p>If, however, you don&#8217;t plan on learning the language fully or more than a smattering of phrases just to get along (which includes tourists here for just a week or two) then katakana is outrageously useful while hiragana really isn&#8217;t useful at all since even if you get some furigana above the knaji hiragana will be mixed with you still won&#8217;t understand the word.</p>
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		<title>By: xorsyst</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>xorsyst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Great post. I find it interesting that you suggest starting with Katakana. I never looked at it that way, and if your goal is to live there, I can definitely understand your point of view. I really need to concentrate on Katakana. I have a pretty good grasp of Hiragana, and a handful of Kanji, but I still don&#039;t feel comfortable with Katakana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I find it interesting that you suggest starting with Katakana. I never looked at it that way, and if your goal is to live there, I can definitely understand your point of view. I really need to concentrate on Katakana. I have a pretty good grasp of Hiragana, and a handful of Kanji, but I still don&#8217;t feel comfortable with Katakana.</p>
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		<title>By: DBR</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>DBR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-143</guid>
		<description>Totally agree, Billy though I&#039;d say three years is enough time to do have a chance at becoming decently good at the language and I honestly don&#039;t understand why anyone would want to be in a country for that long and not want to have the advantage and insight that the language would give. Then again, I have friends who have been here longer than three years and just have been working so many hours teaching English, without any assistance from their company for lessons or even time to study and I can understand that it can be a real struggle. 
The ones I really don&#039;t understand, though, are those who marry Japanese and don&#039;t make any attempt to learn - even if they met in another country and only moved here later, that says soo much to me - none of it good :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree, Billy though I&#8217;d say three years is enough time to do have a chance at becoming decently good at the language and I honestly don&#8217;t understand why anyone would want to be in a country for that long and not want to have the advantage and insight that the language would give. Then again, I have friends who have been here longer than three years and just have been working so many hours teaching English, without any assistance from their company for lessons or even time to study and I can understand that it can be a real struggle.<br />
The ones I really don&#8217;t understand, though, are those who marry Japanese and don&#8217;t make any attempt to learn &#8211; even if they met in another country and only moved here later, that says soo much to me &#8211; none of it good <img src='http://www.narrativedisorder.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: billywest</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>billywest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-141</guid>
		<description>I started studying Japanese back home for a couple of years before even deciding to come live in Japan. It was just fun for me, and I enjoyed so much about Japan that it was easy to stick with. After arriving, it didn&#039;t take long for me to become conversationally fluent, even though I wasn&#039;t, and am still not by any stretch, &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt; at Japanese. 

I suppose, at first, I used to get annoyed by people who didn&#039;t spend much time learning the language. But, after the months started to turn into years, and I saw how transient the Japan experiences of so many people were, I realized it was pretty pointless for them to spend much time learning more than just survival Japanese. I mean, if we&#039;re just talking a year or so, that&#039;s pretty much an extended tourist&#039;s stint. Enjoying one&#039;s stay as much as possible and not letting guilty feelings about minimal Japanese skills bring about stress and frustration is a better way to go for people who have a relatively quick exit-from-Japan plan.

That being said, people who spend 5+ years in a foreign country without gaining some measure of ability to communicate in that country&#039;s language are pretty hard to understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started studying Japanese back home for a couple of years before even deciding to come live in Japan. It was just fun for me, and I enjoyed so much about Japan that it was easy to stick with. After arriving, it didn&#8217;t take long for me to become conversationally fluent, even though I wasn&#8217;t, and am still not by any stretch, <i>good</i> at Japanese. </p>
<p>I suppose, at first, I used to get annoyed by people who didn&#8217;t spend much time learning the language. But, after the months started to turn into years, and I saw how transient the Japan experiences of so many people were, I realized it was pretty pointless for them to spend much time learning more than just survival Japanese. I mean, if we&#8217;re just talking a year or so, that&#8217;s pretty much an extended tourist&#8217;s stint. Enjoying one&#8217;s stay as much as possible and not letting guilty feelings about minimal Japanese skills bring about stress and frustration is a better way to go for people who have a relatively quick exit-from-Japan plan.</p>
<p>That being said, people who spend 5+ years in a foreign country without gaining some measure of ability to communicate in that country&#8217;s language are pretty hard to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: DBR</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>DBR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Hi Rick, 
Thanks for stopping in and I&#039;m happy for you to add Narrative Disorder to 2JPN - nice resource you are building there!  Superman uses Anki to learn Kanji (which is his first priority as his work documents are filled with kanji but he has little need to speak the language) and he swears by it. 

David,
Thanks for the extra tips! A Denshi Jishou is a great idea for checking labels in shops or deciphering those little things that come in the mail, like failure to deliver notices for packages. I have one that I bought online from a lovely expat here in Japan who puts together systems especially made for English speakers. I found this system far less frightening than the Japanese ones for which you need a slightly higher than beginner skill to use with confidence. I wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/08/17/denshi-jisho-for-native-english-speakers/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a review of mine &lt;/a&gt; a few months back.  Thanks for the reminder!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rick,<br />
Thanks for stopping in and I&#8217;m happy for you to add Narrative Disorder to 2JPN &#8211; nice resource you are building there!  Superman uses Anki to learn Kanji (which is his first priority as his work documents are filled with kanji but he has little need to speak the language) and he swears by it. </p>
<p>David,<br />
Thanks for the extra tips! A Denshi Jishou is a great idea for checking labels in shops or deciphering those little things that come in the mail, like failure to deliver notices for packages. I have one that I bought online from a lovely expat here in Japan who puts together systems especially made for English speakers. I found this system far less frightening than the Japanese ones for which you need a slightly higher than beginner skill to use with confidence. I wrote <a href="http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/08/17/denshi-jisho-for-native-english-speakers/" rel="nofollow">a review of mine </a> a few months back.  Thanks for the reminder!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-138</guid>
		<description>A few tools that can send you from no experience to basic functionality quick-style.

-Japanese dubs of American TV. Take your pick of American primetime, and it&#039;s probably on Japanese cable, with the voices entirely dubbed over. You&#039;ll get the plot enough to be able to put their speech into context, and if you stick with it, you&#039;ll get darned good at aural comprehension.
-Rikaichan. Google it. A firefox plugin that displays a reading and definition for moused-over Japanese anywhere on the internets.
-Denshi-Jisho (electronic dictionary) or Nintendo DS. Write a kanji in (your strokes don&#039;t need to be perfect), and it&#039;ll look it up for you. While you&#039;ll just get frustrated if you try to sit down and read a newspaper, for stuff like deciphering shop and place names, it&#039;s indispensible.
-Heisig&#039;s &quot;Remembering the Kanji.&quot; It&#039;s pretty counter-intuitive, and kind of a waste if you&#039;ve already got a good number of Kanji under your belt, but you can literally go from zero experience to being able to get meaning out of a newspaper article in the space of 6-12 months (dag!). I wish I had found it way earlier in my studies.

Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few tools that can send you from no experience to basic functionality quick-style.</p>
<p>-Japanese dubs of American TV. Take your pick of American primetime, and it&#8217;s probably on Japanese cable, with the voices entirely dubbed over. You&#8217;ll get the plot enough to be able to put their speech into context, and if you stick with it, you&#8217;ll get darned good at aural comprehension.<br />
-Rikaichan. Google it. A firefox plugin that displays a reading and definition for moused-over Japanese anywhere on the internets.<br />
-Denshi-Jisho (electronic dictionary) or Nintendo DS. Write a kanji in (your strokes don&#8217;t need to be perfect), and it&#8217;ll look it up for you. While you&#8217;ll just get frustrated if you try to sit down and read a newspaper, for stuff like deciphering shop and place names, it&#8217;s indispensible.<br />
-Heisig&#8217;s &#8220;Remembering the Kanji.&#8221; It&#8217;s pretty counter-intuitive, and kind of a waste if you&#8217;ve already got a good number of Kanji under your belt, but you can literally go from zero experience to being able to get meaning out of a newspaper article in the space of 6-12 months (dag!). I wish I had found it way earlier in my studies.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: 2JPN</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>2JPN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-137</guid>
		<description>I used a flash card program called Anki to learn hiragana and katakana. A similar program, called Genius, will serve the same function.  Alternatively, if you have a Nintendo DS, try using &quot;Japanese Coach&quot; to learn.

Great post.  Very useful info.
Adding your blog to 2JPN, hope that&#039;s ok.

Cheers,
Rick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used a flash card program called Anki to learn hiragana and katakana. A similar program, called Genius, will serve the same function.  Alternatively, if you have a Nintendo DS, try using &#8220;Japanese Coach&#8221; to learn.</p>
<p>Great post.  Very useful info.<br />
Adding your blog to 2JPN, hope that&#8217;s ok.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Rick</p>
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		<title>By: How Much Japanese? - Nihon Sun</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>How Much Japanese? - Nihon Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>[...] another great take on How Much Japanese? take a moment to read through Moving to Japan Tips: The Language Question at Narrative Disorder which is written from the perspective of an expatriate assigned to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another great take on How Much Japanese? take a moment to read through Moving to Japan Tips: The Language Question at Narrative Disorder which is written from the perspective of an expatriate assigned to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-133</guid>
		<description>I love it - great post!  There is a lot of guilt and frustration about learning the language and you are absolutely correct that it isn&#039;t reasonable to expect to become fluent in the short period of time that most people are &#039;assigned&#039; to Japan.

Makes me wish I had kids though so I could take advantage of the structure in their language education ;) which by the way is a great tip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it &#8211; great post!  There is a lot of guilt and frustration about learning the language and you are absolutely correct that it isn&#8217;t reasonable to expect to become fluent in the short period of time that most people are &#8216;assigned&#8217; to Japan.</p>
<p>Makes me wish I had kids though so I could take advantage of the structure in their language education <img src='http://www.narrativedisorder.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  which by the way is a great tip.</p>
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		<title>By: www.japansoc.com</title>
		<link>http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>www.japansoc.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.narrativedisorder.com/2008/11/11/moving-to-japan-tips-the-language-question/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Moving to Japan Tips: The Language Question...&lt;/strong&gt;

I have at last managed to pump out another in my Moving to Japan series, this time on how much language you really need to move here. As usual it is aimed at the only semi-voluntary crowd of expat wives (lol) but should be useful to others, too. ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Moving to Japan Tips: The Language Question&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I have at last managed to pump out another in my Moving to Japan series, this time on how much language you really need to move here. As usual it is aimed at the only semi-voluntary crowd of expat wives (lol) but should be useful to others, too. &#8230;</p>
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